Help needed for next stone. Venev Orion Series Diamond [6" x 1"]

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KnifeMaker

Help needed for next stone. Venev Orion Series Diamond [6" x 1"]

I find that the Dragon type abrasive cuts for me better than the phoenix. Is the added copper matrix of he Phoenix the reason? Are there other stones available with the Dragon type matrix, and exactly what is the legacy type matrix in the courser stones? Knife Maker

Question ID: 4040196 Status: Open May 28, 2022 - 10:46 AM

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⚙️Leading Edge

May 29, 2022 - 06:16 AM

Q - I find that the Dragon type abrasive cuts for me better than the phoenix. Is the added copper matrix of he Phoenix the reason? Are there other stones available with the Dragon type matrix, and exactly what is the legacy type matrix in the courser stones? Knife Maker

A - The Dragon and Phoenix composition and binder is the same. Only the backing plate and thickness of the abrasive layer differ. Your Dragon stones' surface might need to be refreshed a little bit. I suggest using a Nagura type conditioning stone to refresh them under running water.

Initially (a few years back) the same "legacy" binder was used in all the Venev stones, including the finer grits, but it was found that it caused scratches and abrasion to a coarser level than the grit of the stones itself. Venev decided to develop a "OCB" new generation binder for the finer grit stones (400 and up) with no abrasive particles in the composition. This makes the finer grit Venev stones far better finishing stones.

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KnifeMaker

on 5/29/2022 4:53:45 PM | Like (0)

This is odd as the description of the difference between the Phoenix and the Dragon states that the Phenix has copper in it and the Dragon pacifically stated that the Dragon has no copper. I just purchased a Cerberus which states " Cerberus belongs to the 2nd generation of Venev dual-sided diamonds that you may know by the Dragon series". I also purchased a Centaur 1x6" stone and both are 400f and 1200f. The Centaur cuts completely different than the Cerberus and he cold colored binder or matrix of the 1200 f in the Centaur is far slicker and has much less grit feel. Also it has many apx. 203 mm. blackish spots looking almost like a mold color where the Cerberus is a solid yellow-gold color with no dark spots and has a very pronounced, smooth gritty feed back. The binders are not really similar at all. I wish to purchased more stones, but am leery at the moment. KnifeMaker/Michael Lovett

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⚙️Leading Edge

on 5/30/2022 7:32:08 AM | Like (1)

I just checked with Konstantin about the newest generation of the stones. You are correct Michael! From the latest information, it seems that only the Phoenix 150 and 240 does in fact have copper in the binding in their legacy binder, but not in the OCB binder. The Phoenix and Dragon OCB series (finer grits) are the same. The ones I have - Dragon, Centaur, Ursa, Dog and Orion stones all cut and perform very similarly.

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KnifeMaker

on 5/30/2022 4:04:54 PM | Like (0)

Perhaps I just received an older stone a few weeks back. The yellow binder in the Centaur is much darker than the Dog second generation with many dark spots. It is more brownish matrix than the secnd generating dog and simply does not cut as well. Disappointed it in. GRRRRRR! The Second Generation dog on the other hand is a fine stone. How do I purchase the newer version of the stone I thought I was getting in the Centaur" How can I be sure. Or am I just out of luck here?
I did just finish sharpening Boker Ceramic blade and the dog second gen. did very well. The spotted Centaur wouldn't do it. Same grits on each. Bothe F44 and F800 Grits.

By

⚙️Leading Edge

on 5/30/2022 9:22:26 PM | Like (1)

I've asked Konstantin (the owner of Gritomatic) to get in touch with you here with more information for you. He's more of an expert on the composition and different generations of the Venev stones.

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KnifeMaker

on 6/23/2022 3:19:20 AM | Like (0)

The Dog in the gen LL small stone has a very yellow F400 and the reddish F800 Side. The Centaur has the same reddish F800 side but the F400 is a much darker brownish color with a huge amount of dark brown spots in it. The Gen II F400 cuts very well and only occasionally has to be surfaced. The Centaur has to be resurface ever few minutes or it will not cut. Frustrating! I'm really enjoying the smaller Dot Gen II and just started using a Grater Dog in F100-F240 grit. It is doing a fine job of finishing the sides on 1911's as well as setting bevels on new knives. I just can't get any love from the Centaur in the F400 grit. goes slick instantly. I'm wanting to order a Grater Don in the same grits but am Leary. And really need to know when the Phoenix and Dragon versions come available again. Thank you for any future help in this matter. Here are the type of knives I am involved with KnifeMaker https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=7v-DuWRfm7s&t=538s

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Venev Orion Series Diamond [6" x 1"]

Venev Orion Series Bonded Diamonds are used for sharpening knives on Hapstone, TSProf, and all Edge Pro compatible guided knife sharpeners. Diamond sharpening stones offer excellent performance in sharpening knives of any steel.Orion series consists of a 3 mm-thick diamond-bearing plate on an Edge P... See More

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This is odd as the description of the difference between the Phoenix and the Dragon states that the Phenix has copper in it and the Dragon pacifically stated that the Dragon has no copper. I just purchased a Cerberus which states " Cerberus belongs to the 2nd generation of Venev dual-sided diamonds that you may know by the Dragon series". I also purchased a Centaur 1x6" stone and both are 400f and 1200f. The Centaur cuts completely different than the Cerberus and he cold colored binder or matrix of the 1200 f in the Centaur is far slicker and has much less grit feel. Also it has many apx. 203 mm. blackish spots looking almost like a mold color where the Cerberus is a solid yellow-gold color with no dark spots and has a very pronounced, smooth gritty feed back. The binders are not really similar at all. I wish to purchased more stones, but am leery at the moment. KnifeMaker/Michael Lovett
I just checked with Konstantin about the newest generation of the stones. You are correct Michael! From the latest information, it seems that only the Phoenix 150 and 240 does in fact have copper in the binding in their legacy binder, but not in the OCB binder. The Phoenix and Dragon OCB series (finer grits) are the same. The ones I have - Dragon, Centaur, Ursa, Dog and Orion stones all cut and perform very similarly.
Perhaps I just received an older stone a few weeks back. The yellow binder in the Centaur is much darker than the Dog second generation with many dark spots. It is more brownish matrix than the secnd generating dog and simply does not cut as well. Disappointed it in. GRRRRRR! The Second Generation dog on the other hand is a fine stone. How do I purchase the newer version of the stone I thought I was getting in the Centaur" How can I be sure. Or am I just out of luck here?
I did just finish sharpening Boker Ceramic blade and the dog second gen. did very well. The spotted Centaur wouldn't do it. Same grits on each. Bothe F44 and F800 Grits.
I've asked Konstantin (the owner of Gritomatic) to get in touch with you here with more information for you. He's more of an expert on the composition and different generations of the Venev stones.
The Dog in the gen LL small stone has a very yellow F400 and the reddish F800 Side. The Centaur has the same reddish F800 side but the F400 is a much darker brownish color with a huge amount of dark brown spots in it. The Gen II F400 cuts very well and only occasionally has to be surfaced. The Centaur has to be resurface ever few minutes or it will not cut. Frustrating! I'm really enjoying the smaller Dot Gen II and just started using a Grater Dog in F100-F240 grit. It is doing a fine job of finishing the sides on 1911's as well as setting bevels on new knives. I just can't get any love from the Centaur in the F400 grit. goes slick instantly. I'm wanting to order a Grater Don in the same grits but am Leary. And really need to know when the Phoenix and Dragon versions come available again. Thank you for any future help in this matter. Here are the type of knives I am involved with KnifeMaker https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=7v-DuWRfm7s&t=538s

Help needed for next stone. Venev Orion Series Diamond [6" x 1"]

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